ALL IN ONE FILMS -Transcripts

H.H Dalai Lama

173D

HEART OF KINDNESS

CBC INTERVIEW - TAPE 1

YOUR HOLINESS, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THE DALAI LAMA EVER GETS A DAY OFF.

[Tibetan]

I'M SORRY DO YOU HAVE

Yes I do

I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THE DALAI LAMA EVER GETS A HOLIDAY, TAKES A VACATION.

Yes I think in certain .......... yes sometimes

WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO DO WHEN YOU HAVE TIME TO YOURSELF?

More reading and those my daily meditation extended more how to say more time, more leisurely. Then that gives me some kind of satisfaction or some, good good good for me. So that's so really in India sometimes I visit some remote place and spend one week or two weeks without meeting new people just stay quietly and then they of course the daily routine is same as I mentioned just now you see. Then I have leisure as a more longer time about this practice and then reading reading.

[technical comments]

Sorry sorry sorry

WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO READ? WHAT KIND OF A BOOK DO YOU ENJOY?

You see mainly of course in Tibetan Buddhists mainly Buddhist philosophy then in English my of course there are many fields where I have interests. Now for example the some simple explanation about cosmology that is very interesting to me. Then about biology these things also is very interesting. Then of course b......... and then also what so different thing. Then also explanation about nature I think what you call about the tree, about plants and birds, the different mammals in sea or sometimes the different people from different places. These mainly I enjoy read.

I'VE SEEN YOU FEEDING THE BIRDS AND I WONDER IF YOU HAVE A FAVORITE ONE?

That usually those birds who never create trouble for other birds I love more. So I sometimes I although I practise Buddha dharma and sometimes I have to make some discrimination of these birds. Sometimes more favorite some then so fond.

SOME OF THEM SCARE THE OTHER BIRDS AWAY.

Yeah. Those those bigger ones. There is one smaller you see, lot of them small small one feeding there is one big one come and then creates sometimes unpleasant atmosphere. So sometimes I how to say huhn? yes chase them.

YOU RUN AFTER THEM OR DO YOU YELL AT THEM?

Some sometimes I use in order to protect the smaller one, sometimes I use what you call airgun air rifle.

YOU SHOOT THE BIRDS?

No no no no.

YOU FRIGHTEN THEM.

[HH laughs]

WHEN YOU HAVE

And then when I was in Tibet when I was young, one occasion I shot one small birds with what you call the air rifle, sad very sad. That my mistake.

DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING MORE TO LEARN ABOUT YOUR FAITH? ARE YOU DISCOVERING EVERY DAY?

Every day I don't know. Now here I can't see much how to say result if I look daily experiences. Oh I mean I think it's daily, if I look at it daily, there is not much to see development. Then I compare, today is my how to say is way of thinking or behaviour compare five years back or ten years back, then I notice much change. So then I look, then I realize during my practice some change took place within myself. So that then you know my position I can't stand remote place for at least a few month, that kind of thing you see. At the moment difficult almost impossible. So therefore certain practice I can't practice.

THAT I ASSUME THAT CHANGES FOR THE BETTER YOU ARE A BETTER PERSON NOW IN SOME WAYS THAN YOU WERE FIVE YEARS AGO OR TEN YEARS AGO?

Yes that I can say, yes.

CAN I GO BACK TO BEFORE YOU WERE CHOSEN IN 1939? DO YOU HAVE MANY MEMORIES OF YOUR CHILDHOOD AND THE PARTY THAT CAME AND FOUND YOU?

Yes that time according my mother and all some people who at that time found me according their how to say witness, I clearly showed clear memory of past life. And also different nation these different people, their names Then my own ........... actually naturally the Buddhist, according Buddhist how to say belief, the new body when grown up or the all the different cells of the new body fully developed, then the memory of past life decrease. Unless you make special effort. So now today I have not much actually none memory about this past life. But then one indication about past life then here according my own experience, certain certain field, certain Buddhist philosophical field or point where usually I don't know usually good scholars they spent a lot of time and a lot of effort and then gain some knowledge or deeper knowledge. In my case, without much effort sometimes easily get the deeper meaning. Then when I discuss with these different scholars their experiences, then I realize, I notice yes my case without much effect, without much effort, and time how while playing then is a steady on almost a superficial level but somehow I gained some deeper knowledge. So that means I believe due to my past lives how to say study.

DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN YOU WERE THREE AND FOUR YEARS OLD? DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT?

Of course at that time, as I mention earlier you see, it seems those people who acquainted with previous Dalai Lama and these people when came I realized these people and mentioned their name so feeling just how to say spontaneous feeling So that believe some young now today for example in India two small girls I personally met their memory is so sharp, so clear so as a result both two girls now have four parents, parent of this life, two parents of this life then the memory or the expression is so convincing so the previous two parents also now accepted these two girls as their own daughter. So I've personally seen that. So when they're young their memory quite clear so these things so in my case also you see. These things are similar.

DID YOUR PARENTS KNOW THAT YOU SPECIAL, DID YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS KNOW HOW IMPORTANT YOU WERE?

Yes, before the searching party of Dalai Lama reach there my mother and father they already decided I should enter monastery.

AT THAT YOUNG AGE?

That's right. I mean eventually should enter monastery because my behaviour or there certain indication after my birth. So they consider me something something reincarnation of a Dalai Lama.

IT WASN'T BECAUSE YOU CAUSED A LOT OF TROUBLE AROUND THE HOUSE?

I think one ............. as you mentioned some important rebirth happened and sometimes certain unfortunate experiences happen and then my case another story anyways little bit mysterious thing. You see in my family or the village if you Dalai some kind some kind of mysterious forces. My mother when she sick actually few occasion actually my mother saw that mysterious you see so that kind of thing. Anyway that thing before my birth that mysterious mysterious thing often happen in my family. After my birth that no more. So my mother very much appreciate my birth. Since my birth my mother felt no more how to say interference of mysterious things. So they I think think they I think they found me because of that one one reason like that. Then the about my birth my father very sick, then the very day my birth completely cure. Then as soon as father is one son born, then father delighted and shout and then they say, or he says spontaneously, oh he wanted to I mean he want this youngest son should be should become a monk. So that's that's story.

DO YOU EVER DREAM OF THE ESCAPE IN 1959?

You mean before?

NO NOW. DOES IT EVERY COME BACK TO YOU?

Yes sometimes yes sometimes.

AND DO YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE LUCKY I MEAN WHAT FORM DOES THE DREAM TAKE THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO ESCAPE?

What do you mean?

DO YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO ESCAPE?

Escape. Of course. There's no doubt. I think I think reasons two level. You see personal level free from tyranny, free from how to say

OPPRESSION

oppression. You know there I mean to me that is if there is freedom, you can utilize human creative nature. Now as a result as a result of freedom in India, no refugee but full freedom, so as a result I can communicate, I can meet different people from different culture, different country, different religion, different political idea, very useful. To me much gain as a result of this meeting different people. If I remain in Tibet under Chinese full control, only those people whom Chinese agree to meet I can meet. Otherwise difficult. Now actually recent years is some change .......... the previous situation. There is personal level. Then of course as a Buddhist monk we always consider India as something very important, very sacred place, therefore in ancient time you see, despite difficulties to reach India you see, many people go to India, make how to say pilgramage. So we we consider very fortunate now we are living in India. Then on the level of how to say Tibet as the Dalai Lama, because my escape or because Dalai Lama how to say freed or get out from Chinese hand, so now today outside Tibet there is now community where Tibetan culture, or I should say the Buddha state of Tibetan culture useful useful aspect of Tibetan culture and especially Buddhism survive intactly. Inside Tibet, there lot of destructions happened. So therefore for Tibetan how to say national viewpoint, and also I think Tibetan culture and Buddhism, of course you we we are in India, we escaped from India with me there are many scholars many lamas. So today I consider that the 59 event no mistake. We feel it was very satisfying.

I WANTED TO ASK YOU, FROM THE JOURNEY YOU'VE BEEN ON, WHAT YOU ARE MOST PROUD OF, AND I THINK MAYBE

END

174D

HEART OF KINDNESS

CBC INTERVIEW - TAPE 2

That is my dream that from time to time, some cases there are plain indication my past life. Sometimes dream dream sometimes is spontaneous feeling I am that person that have feeling, or sometimes I met in dreams personally. Then other things something maybe mysterious.

AS A CHILD YOU [OVERLAPPING].......TODAY

[OFF MIKE COMMENTS]

[Tibetan]

If you find something connection then you can ask and I'll explain. Otherwise [Tibetan]

I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS JOURNEY THAT YOU HAVE BEEN ON FROM WELL I GUESS FROM THE BEGINNING, BUT MORE AS THE DALAI LAMA FROM THE AGE OF FOUR, WHAT YOU ARE MOST PROUD OF. WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH AS THE DALAI LAMA.

.......... I don't know. One way I feel just as a simple Buddhist monk, I can't do much. Although I have the sincere motivation to do and to contribute for welfare of human community or all sentient being in Buddha dharma. But other hand, in some aspect or I mean some another how to say angle if you look another angle, then because of circumstances not like previous Dalai Lama's time, now today in my time circumstances oh bad. In fact I think is more than 2000 years Tibetan history, this is the darkest period. ......... the destruction although this kind of national tragedy happening before, but today the so well organized this destruct how to say destructive power. So destruction is something immense. And the amount of people suffering, even Tibetan wild animal, so much is suffering. Then under this circumstances, not my ability, but because of the circumstances, I think my being I think it becomes some useful for Tibetan people, for Tibetan culture, for Tibetan how to say their future right. So sometimes I feel yes, under worst circumstances, I contribute something. That's my great achievement.

GIVEN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, I THINK NINE OUT OF TEN PEOPLE WOULD ALLOW YOU SOME ANGER, WOULD ALLOW YOU A DEGREE OF IMPATIENCE WITH THE SITUATION.

[Tibetan]

A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY I UNDERSTAND WHY HE'S ANGRY, I UNDERSTAND IF HE IS IMPATIENT. AND YOU HAVEN'T CHOSEN EITHER EMOTION.

[Tibetan]

I see yes. [Tibetan]

SORRY

Sorry, the question is?

THE QUESTION IS I GUESS MANY PEOPLE WONDER WHY YOU ARE NOT, WHY YOU DON'T EXHIBIT ANGER OR PUBLICLY SHOW IMPATIENCE, GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED.

Well that's I mean impatience I mean anger or hatred or ill feeling, I mean is ........ our own course. It won't help my own future. As some important Buddhist text mentions the ill feeling or anger, hatred, it's almost like self. Self ruin. So now for example my case, if I develop some irritation, some anger, the result I lost my appetite, I lost my sleep and eventually I think my health will deteriorated or weaken. So another on other hand, some who are troublemaker there they won't get any hurt from my ill feeling, isn't it? So other hand I remain peace, calm, quite happy and with normal function about my brain work. And then from that way, from that state of mind, I can judge better, I can act better way. So that anyway other other my friend who creates trouble for Tibetan how to say Tibetan nation, I think anyway they may hurt more if I remain here calm peace and calculate without how to say without how to say excitement or without blindness.

BUT I GUESS IT'S EASIER TO SEE THE RESULTS OF ANGER THAN IT IS TO SEE THE RESULTS OF COMPASSION.

I don't think, I don't think. You see with compassion the equally energtating or how to say powerful action will come. With clear clearness so I consider the anger as just useless, it's no use anger. Just accept yourself how to say ...... self disturbance some kind of thing. That's my belief.

BUT YOUR HOLINESS IF THAT ANGER COMES FROM SEEING AN INJUSTICE AND YOU BELIEVE THAT IT HAS A BASE OF MORALITY

Oh yes

THEN ISN'T THAT ANGER NOT JUST APPROPRIATE BUT ISN'T THAT A REQUIRED REACTION TO HUMAN SUFFERING?

Now ...... and for parent yes, for parent, two parent they how to say their children's behaviour sometimes due to their certain behaviour the parent may feel very negative feeling but that time there is some kind of agitated feeling with strong compassion, love. No anger. Still some kind of very close feeling towards that I mean towards that. And with that motivation the parent may take appropriate measure So here someone is I don't know the exact word but there is a certain I mean rough thought with compassion, or there is rough feeling without compassion, is there are a lot of differences. So important thing is I think with compassion and awareness, you may develop certain kind of thought which gives you same amount of energy as anger gives you without the the blindness or with aware awareness.

I THINK YOU ARE A PRACTICAL MAN, YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEMS THAT THE WORLD IS FACING NOW. AND I HAVE TO TRY TO EXPLORE WITH YOU HOW LOVE AND COMPASSION AND KINDNESS AND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, HOW THOSE EMOTIONS WILL TACKLE WORLD POLLUTION, THE ARMS RACE THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET ARE FACING NOW. HOW DO YOU SEE THAT COMING TOGETHER?

[Tibetan]

As a buddhist is the ultimate decision come from motivation, the proper motivation is most important, the key mover. So now many I think negative event on the world some that I think make I think may some due to I think negative emotion such as war you know clearly. And with anger, with hatred, then certain negative action, human action not necessarily that kind of negative emotion or negative motivation, but the neglect neglect what you say

NEGLIGENCE?

Negligence, yes. Now for example I think that the .... pollution or the ozone layer is a problem these things these things, we I mean not necessarily to have some kind of negative or certain emotion, certain how to say certain

EMOTIONS?

motivation, motivation to destroy these things. But simply we neglect, we don't care, we simply caring more wealth or more money ........... isn't it? So now here in both cases the compassion or compassion anyway sense of responsibility, sharing other people's right or experience. Therefore with compassion naturally you can feel the future generations' right and their welfare. All one is a country you realize in certain things then other other hand same planet people facing starvation, that kind of thing, isn't it? These things anyway lack of how to call negligence

NEGLIGENCE

not hatred feeling but you do negligence. So in this case more compassionate attitude, more concern about others and about other means including next generation, future generation. So then naturally you will develop some kind of concern about preservation of resource or preservation of atmosphere. And naturally concerned about more equality, more distribution.

I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU TO STAY ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE POLLUTION PROBLEM ON THIS PLANET NOW BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF THAT POLLUTION AND OUR ABUSE OF THIS PLANET HAS COME FROM WANTING TO BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH MATERIAL THINGS. DOES THAT ACT AS AN OBSTRUCTION, DOES THAT STOP THE PROCESS OF COMING TO TERMS WITH ONESELF OR ACHIEVING A PEACE OF MIND?

And I'm finding here much depend on awareness, our own future. Now many scientists now because of their what you say I mean their knowledge political this field, their deeper awareness or deeper knowledge about long term consequences therefore they see the long term how to say negative

IMPLICATIONS?

implications. So therefore I really think much depend on awareness. So public I think the constant sort of educating if we if we how to say do this with negligence, then a long term future consequences will be such and such. I think is very important, now these compassionate action actually is not something moral issue. I consider not just as a moral thing, sometimes I think the moral question is anyway something like luxury, I mean here you have these more luxury things very good, but without it you can survive. So now the question of compassion and sense of responsibility. Now this is not question of luxury, but this is question of survival, long term survival. Now concerning how to say ecology, environment, the planet which belongs to us our own planet not moon some other planet, this we have to survive within this planet So sometimes I call the planet as our mother. But til now the planet, mother planet, accepted stupid children's behaviour up to certain standard, up to certain limit. Now human ability creation of new imbalance of certain nature element now that ability reach so high so now mother planet telling us: be careful. There is limitations.

WHAT WILL MAKE US LISTEN TO THAT WARNING THOUGH?

So now we when big city too much pollution.......... suffer. Sometimes is a fear more how to say tiredness, more exhaustion. So this who makes that? Myself. And I often telling those people who complaining about how to say the coughing or these different I mean different kind of the physical problem. At the same time they don't care about smoke about how to say hard drink. Sometimes I jokingly someone in some cases certain people come to ask me some kind of blessing or some kind of thing for their liver trouble. At the same time they drink a lot how to say alcohol. There I don't I can't I can't give you any blessing unless you stop

end

175D

HEART OF KINDNESS

CBC INTERVIEW - TAPE 3

[OFF MIKE COMMENTS]

IN TALKING TO SO MANY PEOPLE WE'VE TALKED TO DOZENS OF PEOPLE, EACH PERSON SEES YOU IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND EACH PERSON SEES YOU WITH A LOT OF ADULATION, WARM FEELING FROM THE HEART AND A LOT OF GOOD THINGS. HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

So long other people how to say showing some kind of warmth or very friendly attitude I would smile, I feel happy. Then sometimes I feel yes I may contribute something for their at least temporary mental peace. That also I consider purpose of life. If not benefit long how to say longer time then short few minutes alright. Sometimes even I tried to smile then other side went like very serious no sometimes feel little bit how to say uncomfortable. Sometimes I feel .........

I'VE ALSO SEEN IT MAKES YOU LAUGH SOMETIMES TOO. ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT? I THINK SOMETIMES FOR OTHER PEOPLE PERHAPS IT'S THEIR OWN KARMA OR PERHAPS THEIR OWN IMAGINATION OR PERHAPS IT'S THEIR REALITY IS YOU ARE A HEALER. DO YOU YOURSELF FEEL THAT YOU'RE A HEALER?

No no no. In the past sometimes some people later to express or told me as a result of my meeting or how to say shake hand or some kind of pat or that kind of thing, they got some kind of cure or something. I myself am surprised. But I have no use now power how to say healing. I no interest. See I always asking people should should make should have proper medical treatment my blessing my how to say blessing will not sufficiently is not reliable I always are telling people. So no question about healing. I am not healer.

NOT EVEN UNINTENTIONALLY, WITHOUT INTENTION?

As from Buddhist viewpoint can ......... link, sometimes may happen.

WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ........... INITIATION FOR WORLD PEACE AND HOW DOES THAT WORK FOR SOMEBODY IN THE WEST FOR INSTANCE TO UNDERSTAND THAT?

I think we consider Kalachakra tantric tantric teaching is this is Buddha taught this not merely meant for individual practitioner but is somehow is some connection with the entire human community based in the historical I mean according scripture, one Shambala place called mysterious land is Shambala, although you can't find where it is I don't know. Anyway the Buddha taught this practice for that particular entire human community. And later we consider we believe after a few century this planet may develop direct contact with that mysterious land. So therefore the anyone who make some kind of how to say connection with this practice they eventually at least minimum benefit during that time will reappear, will take rebirth of this planet and will how to say advance spiritual experiences. Then then up to now my own experiences according my own experience, usually when I perform this initiation, it seems sometimes it may contributed something in the in that area, in atmosphere some kind of mysterious way there's some kind of I think positive how to say energy or vibration. So anyway not harmful vibration. So so I have the courage I'm thinking sort of courage or determination to perform And then of course individually Kalachakra one of the I think very vast and profound tantric system. So if anyone can practice than this is one of the I think very rich tantric practice. So some kind useful. But I consider mainly contribution atmosphere surrounding the place, some kind of positive charging. So that I consider mainly HH - CBC Interview - Explanation of Kalachakra|1

HOW DO WE AS PEOPLE DEVELOP A GREATER FEELING OF KINDNESS FOR OTHER HUMAN BEINGS AND FOR ALL KINDS OF LIFE? HOW DO WE BECOME BETTER...... YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY VERY GOOD AT ....

My usually I'm telling people the practice of compassion these things not as a religious thing, not as a moral thing but these things other the thing which very important for one's own happiness and one's own future success and at another level entire human community entire human how to say humanity actually very much depend on whether you whether we ourself realize or not in fact future of humanity must depend on compassion. That individual human being when they are start their life. Without compassion or without affection how do you call affection, you can't survive. That's not a religious word, but some of my scientist friends expressed according their scientific research they told especially after just few weeks after born the simple mother's touch is crucial factor to develop their brain brain cell. So now this shows very human body itself need that affection, compassionate feeling. And this is nothing to do with religion nothing to do with god. Simply their how to say the basic nature of human body and human society and human community. And now the modern ........ modern technology modern communication, modern economic structure, now these facts, these factors or these reality compell us, we have to think more larger how to say larger interests in order to survive onself, in order to happy oneself. After all we human beings social animal. So we have to live together. And modern economic structure like that. Not only nation to nation but continent to continent heavily dependent on one one ......... So under such circumstances, without sense of usually I call universal responsibility, we can't properly develop about human future. Now we are nearing the next century. Now already this century I think already clearly showed the war and peace. I think now people more and more people realize the war is something really a negative thing. Previous time people do feel war is something necessary, final decision may come to war. Today one factor nuclear threat, or nuclear how to say the destructive power. So people now simply feel that war is something out of question. So the genuine feeling or genuine desire to achieve lasting world peace now I think it seems much much stronger. Then again the previous time, the early part of this century or even mid part of this century, people completely neglect about environment, ecology problems. Now today people realize that we have to we have to take serious concerns about ecology effect environment. So this also I think is very healthy sign. Not due to religion but due to deeper knowledge about human I mean deeper deeper knowledge or deeper awareness about reality. And also through experience now the more and more people now feeling the signs after all science and internal mental peace or spiritual but somehow should come closer. Now these because of the reality now compell us to think more about inner human quality. Then anger up to now we fully developed anger. Result? Not satisfy, not satisfactory. Through Second World War not from out of compassion but out of anger, out of jealousy, out of hatred so much destruction happened. I think we already experienced the result of anger, result of unlimited attachment of desire Now these lead us I think certain corner, now there is not much room to move. So we have to find another alternative. Now that is more genuine compassions or sometimes I call the deeper realization of oneness of entire human being, oneness entire human being, oneness oneness entire human being. And with that on the basis of that kind of realization the genuine sense of universal responsibility on the basis of sense of brotherhood, sisterhood. I think is the the very important basis for future development. This is I feel. So if we think more develop according our own experience, then we can we can I mean we can we can see the situation, this I feel.

ONE LAST QUESTION. YOU TOLD ME YOU'RE NOT A POLITICIAN, IT'S NOT YOUR VOCATION, YOUR PROFESSION WHAT IS YOUR REAL PROFESSION?

My real profession: sleep. This is I love sleep sound sleep, the day long day how to say activities and then late evening my eyelids become very very thick. That is how you say sound sleep give me next day full alert, full how to say ready. No need sleeping pill, no need to other thing. Then of course as a as a Buddhist monk who spent the most of energy and time to study Buddha dharma so that of course I'm not a learned one compare someone ah my knowledge is just as nothing. But then as a Buddhist, Buddhist philosophy relative. If my knowledge compare someone else then sometimes I feel oh, I have some knowledge. And anyway that I consider my own how to say profession field.

A BUDDHIST MONK?

Yes Buddhist monk and Buddhist philosophy.

ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT? DO YOU HAVE ONE THING IF YOU HAD ONE THING THAT COULD BE, ONE SENTENCE THAT COULD GO TO EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, WHAT WOULD IT BE?

Has good heart, be a good human being with good heart. That gives you brighter future. That gives you energy, peace, tranquility. And also that gives you inner strength. So usually I call compassionate love is something like universal religion. Without any other complicated religious system. Simply be a good being a good person.

THANK YOU

Alright?

LET'S KEEP THE CAMERA ROLLING. PETER, YOU WANT TO SHOW HIM YOUR CAMERA?

There's only one button that....

.....

that you have to turn on. Here, if you turn that on and you turn that on, it's all it's all connected so that this, if you just touch see change the focal light and go ......... this will

How long since you use this camera?

About a month.

So the most important thing is you get good you get good picture?

Oh yeah

Ohhh that is good. ........... investigate camera ........... ........sometimes

...........

I HAVE TO TAKE A PICTURE OF YOU AND HIM TOGETHER. SO WE'LL TRUST THIS CAMERA.

Which way do you want to take it, David?

DOESN'T MATTER, THIS IS FINE.

So you better use the flash I think, it wouldn't hurt.

And open this, not quite warm

TOO .....

.....

STILL NOT........ OK.

You want the ........ standing there?

YEAH STANDING I THINK.

Put it on Peter

The light on me?

Yup

......... I'VE HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE.

I don't know if he.......

Smile

DO WE WAIT FOR THE GREEN LIGHT TO GO ON?

Yeah

....... one more

AND HOW DO YOU ADVANCE IT?

Oh .............

It's already developed. It's at home in your photo album now.

NOTHING'S HAPPENING.

Are you getting a green light?

YEAH I GOT A GREEN LIGHT

Because the red light came on outside.

One more

THERE WE GO

Good, very good, very good.

Pleasure to meet you.

......correct way...

DO YOU WANT A PICTURE OF YOU AND HIS HOLINESS.......

[inaudible]

For the children, Your Holiness.

........

........light...

[CUT]

And.......

OK ANYTHING

[Tibetan] ???

ANYTHING .... EXCEPT COMING...... FROM ENGLAND WITH HIS BABY

Now

end

TURNING IT AROUND.

Yeah.

PERFECT.

(CUT)

(note to editor: one camera will be numbered without alphabet;

second camera will be numbered with a B after the number for sync

beeps - camera roll 11 or at least the discreet numbers 11, 12

and 13 will be numbered with a single beep, and the second camera

will have two beeps, each of them will be seperately synced.)

Your holiness, the last time we met you told me of being chosen

Dalai Lama at the age of two and the process that it was done.

How can we know now about your growing up. What was it like

growing up being the ..... by millions of Tibetans, what was your

childhood like? Were you ever frightened of all this

responsibility you had.

No. Yes, I think there is sometimes. you see, slight, how do you

say, sort of hesitation, say, is it good for, is it taking some

decision, and I have to think from the positive side, from the

negative side and also listen to others' views.

HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOUR RELIGIOUS EDUCATION BEGAN, RELIGIOUS

TRAINING?

Now, I think, as you know, you see in early childhood I think

there is 6, 7 we started you see. At that time mainly you learn

by heart. You know in Tibetan tradition as in Indian tradition,

the root text which endorse something, you see, important in

text, these usually we learn by heart. Then you see is later

commemntary - these we read. So I think 6, 7, from that age I

started to learn by heart. Then you see, serious study, ah how

do you say - metaphysics, you say the way dialect - ......

dialectic, you say, debating.

DEBATING.

You see that. I think around 11 or 12 years of my age, started.

THIS WAS A VERY INTENSIVE TRAINING YOU WENT THROUGH AND I

REMEMBER YOU TELLING ME ONCE BEFORE THAT YOU WERE PRETTY BRIGHT.

YOU ENJOYED THIS TRAINING - YOU WERE PRETTY CLEVER. I'M

WONDERING, THOUGH, DID YOU HAVE TIME TO PLAY? DID YOU HAVE TIME

TO ENJOY YOURSELF, HAVE FUN, GAMES?

Not much.

NOT MUCH.

Not much. I think my game - game .... play, I think at that

time, the place - how to say - secluded, you see. I not much

seek relation or mixing with other people except, you see, my

..... what you call - attendant.

ATTENDANTS.

Attendants. They all you see, elder people. But one thing -

these days I feel sort of is a surprise. That is when I was - I

was small but those you see my what you say, my playmate was

elder people. But they very good player. (chuckles)

I SEE.

Do you see? Almost act like you see, my same age. ....... But

ah - the main see, the - I don't know how to say - you see, game,

you say making by, you say, hand - is sometimes drawing,

sometimes, you see, ah I don't know how to say - animals or

birds, making by - you know you say -

CRAFTS.

In Tibetan ...............

WHAT'S THAT?

What you say frosted - ah roasted - roasted bali and make powder.

You see that is very good - of course is very good for tired, and

also very good to make you ...... things. This is sort of you

see, monastery or a house or animals, different kinds of animals,

different kind of people. I was very fond to make these kind of

thing.

I HEARD ONE TIME THAT YOU FOUND A COUPLE OF CARS THERE THAT HAD

BELONOGED TO A PREVIOUS DALAI LAMA AND YOU WORKED ON THEM,

REPAIRED THEM, AND YOU DROVE THEM AROUND THE PALACE YARD. NOT

TOO ACCURATELY EITHER. IS THAT STORY TRUE?

(LAUGHTER) Yes. Sometimes I really - now you see I feel, oh,

really dangerous in some cases now. You see stuck or you see, on

wall or sometimes you see, the doors, like that. And many - many

occasions is damage. But sometimes - that time you see I needed

to hide some of these, you see, damaged, damaaged part from - how

do you say - my diver - because at that time is my particular

diver is very short tempered person. (chuckles) If he saw is

something wrong due to my drive - without his permission - he

may get angry. (laughter)

WELL, YOU HAVE SO MUCH JOY IN YOU ALL THE TIME. THIS IS THE

SECOND TIME NOW THAT I MET YOU AND YOU SEEM TO BE SO FULL OF JOY

AND SO FULL OF HAPPINESS THAT I THINK YOU MUST HAVE A WONDERFUL

SENSE OF HUMOUR FIRST OF ALL, AND SECONDLY THAT YOU DO ENJOY

PLAYFULNESS - HAPPINESS. AND IT'S INTERESTING TO CONTRAST THIS

WIWTH YOUR LIFE BECAUSE IT HAS NOT BEEN A HAPPY LIFE.

I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE TO 1950 WHEN CHINA INVADED TIBET. NOW IN

ORDER TO GET THE BEST DEAL FOR YOUR PEOPLE YOU WENT TO CHINA TO

TALK TO MAO TSE TUNG. HE SAID HE WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH YOU.

HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT HIM?

At that time my impression was no doubt he was a great leader, a

freedom fighter - how to say - revolutionary leader, no doubt.

In his personal, let's say, behaviour, when we used to meeting,

or talk, or you see when we sit together dining sometimes -

dining -

EATING.

Eating, yes - he - how you say - very calm and gentle. And

especially when he speak you see, his voice not very strong and

speak very gently and very slowly and word which he pick is very

effective. That is my impression.

YOU MUST HAVE HAD -

And of course he ah - how you say - I learn certain things from

him.

WHAT SORT OF THINGS WOULD THAT BE?

You see, how to deal with people and how to listen, you see, the

people's different opinion. And then at the lastt, and then you

see, how to make - how to take a decision after listening to

different views - that kind of, you see, advice - very useful.

YOU MUST HAVE HOPED AT THAT TIME THEN THAT CONDITIONS WOULD

IMPROVE, WOULD BE BETTER, BECAUSE OF YOUR MEETING WITH MAO.

Yes that's right. That was '54, '55. You know, you see before

Chinese communist came ah the ah you see, we have ah - in fact no

contact with other foreigner - very little, very little. Ah then

when Chinese came they of course you know in '50 there is some

fight you see, on the border area. But then you know the Chinese

forces came. Naturally you see every Tibetan very much anxious.

Then you see we went to Peking to meet - how you say - meeting

with various leaders there. That was the - how you say - I think

the best period have closer relation with Chinese leaders. Then

around '56, '57, things changed.

YES. TELL ME ABOUT THOSE YEARS, THE YEARS BEFORE YOUR EXILE.

WHAT WERE THEY LIKE?

You see, '55, I think summer I returned, summer of '55 I

returned. Then end of that year, you see, the open revolt

started from eastern part of Tibet. Then you see that revolt

opened, you see - how you say - revolt - or how do you say -

violence spread out from one place to another place, like that.

Then '56 I come to India for Buddhist celebration, 2,500 years

you see, Buddhist celebration. Then you see, inside Tibet things

are becoming, you see, more how do you say, you say darker and

darker and darker, more complicated things. Things become like

that.

OKAY WE'RE GOING TO STOP FOR JUST A MOMENT WHILE WE RELOAD THE

CAMERA.

DL8&9

MAN ALIVE

'DALAI LAMA '84'

ROLLS 8, 9

CAMERA ROLLS 12 AND 12B.

(BACKGROUND TALKING)

If you have, you see, ..... then shot longer and edit.

THAT'S RIGHT.

That's much better.

30 MINUTES, YES. THE LAST PROGRAM, THE CANADIAN PEOPLE REALLY

ENJOYED IT. WE HAD A LARGE AUDIENCE FOR IT. A LOT OF GOOD

REACTION.

......

OKAY.

(PROMPTING)

SYNC.

SYNC. SYNC.

THESE YEARS JUST BEFORE YOUR EXILE MUST HAVE BEEN VERY

FRUSTRATING ONES FOR YOU PERSONALLY AND FOR YOUR PEOPLE. YOU

DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE CHINESE WERE DOING, WHETHER YOU

COULD TRUST WHAT THEY SAID OR NOT.

Yes, that's right. So around '56 I came to India, and with the

invitation by the Indian government. At that time I have a

strong desire to make pilgrimage in India. And while, you see,

we were in India, the Chinese, then the prime minister, late

prime minister, Mr. Chou en Lai, came to India. And then you see

inside situation becoming more and more what do you call,

deteriorated. Then we . . at that time, one of the . . one of

the most difficult period to me is how to make final decision.

This is some people say - you see, Chinese, day by day, month by

month, is becoming more aggressive nature. Don't listen to

reasons and completely you see, how do you say, ignore the

reality by that. So it is, rather it is better to remain in

India than return. See one, some people have that kind of

opinion. And then some people and including the Indian prime

minister, the Pandit Nehru, who really was a later . . later is

'59, greatly helped . . all . . At that time he had opinion,

still better - you see, better - Gorbet or Tibet - and deal with

Chinese, you see, directly, on the basis of what say, this 17

point agreement. Somehow I finally decided I - you see - return.

Then things are, you see, becoming now is very tense. . . But

one good thing, now I recall, that is - you see then one way that

things are very very dangerous and . . .

YES, YES.

Meantime, I continuously study for my final examination. So at

that time I think, my whole energy, one way to . . study in order

to get better mark. Final examination. One way, you see, very

very, what you say, anxious to deal with Chinese. Now there you

see one way, I know you see, open broken with Chinese. You see

very dangerous. In the meantime, I know . . the Tibetan people .

. their frustration or what you say . .

FRUSTRATION.

So that is the most difficult period.

A VERY DIFFICULT PERIOD. WHEN YOU FINALLY DID ESCAPE AFTER THE

CHINESE INVADED AND YOU ESCAPED TO INDIA WITH ABOUT 100,000 I

BELIEVE, THAT WAS REALLY TO AVOID A BLOODBATH.

But now, how to say, this - then around '57 or '58, in these two

years, a very delicate and . . very . . very delicate time.

Then '59, you see, my final examination - say to place - in

February '59. Then the uprising happened. It has itself - it

was March 1959. And even then I try my best you see to calm down

this situation. And next few days, I try my best, one way. Even

I sensed some . . . how do you say some peculiar letter under

that circumstances to Chinese general. Try to at least to some,

you see some, how to say . . . cooler thing. And the one way I

talk with the Tibetan . . Tibetans . . Then the I think 17th -

... 17th . . . the date, exact date. You see Chinese, you see

every, day by day, every signs as if to bombard the place where I

remain because there was many thousands you see Tibetan are

gathered there. And they believe they are protecting me.

THAT'S RIGHT.

But in reality, to gather one place is very dangerous, isn't it?

There is Chinese, you see, every, you see, day, comparatively use

modern munitions, have some big guns like that. Put them inside

. . . So is the final thing. And finally we see that. Then . .

every indication now things will how you say, it will become open

THAT'S RIGHT.

Bit. So the last moment, I decided now better to escape. And I

escaped.

HAVE YOU ANY ESTIMATE AS TO HOW MANY TIBETANS HAVE DIED

PREMATURELY SINCE 1950?

Yes, according to Chin-- at that time - no, yes. Then, you see,

the - after - one or two days since I left, then you see Chinese

bombarded -

YES.

I know many people is killed like that. So now the casualty -

then - sometime later, you see we got a Chinese document from a -

one Chinese military personnel. In it they mentioned that from

March '59, September '60, around Hassa area, the people who

killed through military action are there number is 87,000.

JUST IN THAT SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

Yes. So now you see - actual fighting broke around the end of

'55. That is - of the ..... of fighting ... remained till '63 in

the sense of larger scale. So - and also now you see for the -

how you say - .... population, the other part of Tibet, not isn't

part of Tibet and isn't part of Tibet, this area, this is more

heavier to support the populated area. So not - we believe about

well over 200,000 people killed through military action. Now is

a letter - Now ..... since you see the people coming from Tibet

with how you say with Chinese permission, although very great -

very difficult to get permisson, the Chinese always you see give

onoe of their, is a family member, as a hostage, that kind of

thing. Even then some people now is coming from Tibet in order

to meet their relative. And equally is the Tibetan from outside,

you see, allowed to visit relative in Tibet. Now through this -

now we've got more detailed information. So now although not

cover all Tibet, but those is the places up to now we covered I'd

say.. . no . . we get information. Say, 1.2 millions Tibetan -

Tibetan, you see.

WOULD THIS INCLUDE THOSE THAT DIED FROM STARVATION?

Yes, majority is starvation.

STARVATION, YES.

You see, more than half is starvation. You see, in previous,

there was no such a report. I mean there is no report of

starvation. Maybe you see one or two person one day you see

travelling on you see how to say, fled to these places. Maybe is

possible, otherwise there is food, always plenty.

YES, UNHEARD OF. AFTER YOU ESCAPE INTO INDIA WITH YOUR

FOLLOWERS, IT WAS VERY HARD TO MAKE A TRANSITION, WASN'T IT, TO

THE AREA, TO THE LAND, TO THE DIFFRENCE IN CLIMATE, THE DIFFERENT

IN ALTITUDE. A VERY BAD TIME FOR YOU THERE, WASN'T IT?

Right. Of course, you see, being a refuge always is difficult.

But it is fortunately the India, we have very close relation for

so many centuries. In any case, you see despite that close . .

contact, Indida's plains heat - very uncomfortable for Tibetan.

YES.

So in any case now, since then, you say, we . . as soon as we

become refugee, now our main responsibiity is lying in two

fields. One is in economic field - self support. And one, you

see, preservation of Tibetan identity, Tibetan culture.

OKAY. PAUSE A MOMENT HERE, TO CHANGE REELS.

(Start of Camera Rolls 13 and 13B)

SYNC.

YOU HAVE WORKED TIRELESSLY FOR YOUR PEOPLE IN INDIA TO HELP THEM

ADAPT TO THE MODERN WORLD. THE WESTERN VIEW OF TIBETAN BUDDHISM,

IT IS A MORE PASSIVE RELIGION, ILLUSORY SORT OF FAITH. NOW

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A WRONG VIEW. IT MUST NOT BE TRUE, BECAUSE YOU

HAVE WORKED SO HARD TO - TO DEAL WITH THE REALITY OF THINGS. SO

I GUESS WE HAVE THE WRONG VIEW OF BUDDHISM, PERHAPS.

I think so.

IT IS NOT PASSIVE, AS WE THINK.

Yes. My own experience . . the true . . it gives you more .....,

more courage, more determination.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE--

One ... said to us, they stabilize one's own mind. So they say,

though of course they say sometimes occasionaly there's a small

irritation, small anger, may come. But it will not last. So

it's a mentality, mentally, always you see the main staple. So

this very helpful to deal with this situation.

SEE, WE TEND TO THINK OF BUDDHISM AS NON-ATTACHMENT. I

UNDERSTAND THE HART SUTRA TALKS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT NON-

ATTACHMENT, EMPTINESS. IS THAT TRUE? EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.

I . .

THE HART SUTRA.

You see, non-attachment in the sense now - you see your wealth,

your wealth, your money, or how you say, your belongings, your

friends - is attachment. In certain - here I think -

MATERIAL - MATERIAL THINGS?

. . . English. In any case, I will try. Now this attachment

towards these object with you say strong, what to say, sort of

desire or . . desire or some - some mental definement. You see

that kind of attachment, you see, we try to, how you say, to less

LESSEN.

And of course you see one practitioner - practitioner you see

usually eliminates this kind of you see attachment. But this

does not mean, you see, you - forget or disregard these things.

Now thing - now you see and desire. There are two kinds of

desire. One something and worthwhile to - how you say - to think

or to wish - that kind of desire is right. Now for example,

desire is . . all sentient beings have you see happiness,

permanent, you see, mental happiness, or desire to achieve

Buddhahood, you see, Nirvana or liberation - that kind of desire

is the right type of desire. There is another desire which

actually, as I mentioned earlier you see, very much influenced by

the I think emotional, kind of is emotion. You see that kind of

desire, not unreasonable, not un-- self awareness. Now that kind

of desire is . . .

Now you, also as you mentioned about the what you say the

emptiness of whiteness. Now that - is a complicated matter and a

very important matter. Now - now when we say - non-existence -

that - the basic meaning is non-self-existence. Now things are

there, but does not exist by itself. Now things exist due to

other factor. So you see, .......... So when - when we getting

anger or attachment, you see, these emotional feelings comes.

That time, the object which you feel, you see, anger or you feel

attachment, you see, that object appear as a independent solid

entity. You see that - not reality - in reality interdependent,

some related thing. But that moment appear like independent, so

you see, that - that kind of appearance and feeling of that kind

of thing is the basis for all the mental definement. Once you

know that things are - I mean good is good, bad is bad, still

relatively, things exist in relative way. That reduce the

emotional side of feeling. But the feeling with reason, that

intact. But - not . . . on it.

IT SOMETIMES IS DIFFICULT FOR THE WESTERN MIND TO GRASP THE

SUBTLETIES OF BUDDHISM WHERE THERE IS NO CONCEPT OF GOD OR

CREATOR. YOU TALK INSTEAD OF THE STRIVING FOR ENLIGHTENMENT.

WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF ENLIGHTENMENT?

Enlightenment . . Now . . Buddhist thing is . . now we - every

sentient being, not only human being, all sentient being, has the

clear light. Now I think that is the consciousness. Now we have,

whatever you give a name or the word - but there is some force or

some energy which - which .... things. You see, either ... from

experience or - experience or is seeing(?). There is some, one

kind of, you see, I don't know, one kind of, you see, energy or

some power which - which - which is, I mean, .... or ... They

actually see energy of noa. You see that we call consciousness.

YES.

For example, the eye consciousness, ear consciousness - with a

certain physical form, physical in part, there - due to these

factor, there will - special kind of consciousness create. Now

that knows the thing. Now - now within that level, the

consciousness, now there are different levels of consciousness.

Now some consciousness - for example, at this moment, they're

experiencing. Certain consciousness when you are you see asleep,

with dream, that time, a certain level of consciousness

experiencing. Now furthermore, you see, deep sleep without

dream. That moment the further deeper consciousness experience.

Now go like this - when is a person faint completely, even stop

breathing, that moment we experience further deeper

consciousness. Then is the deepest when people dying. At that

time they will experience the deepest consciousness. You see

that consciousness is the most subtle consciousness. And we call

the innermost subtle - innermost subtle consciousness and

sometimes call clear light.

CLEAR LIGHT.

Now that is with - from Buddhist viewpoint, we call that is the

Buddhist .... Its nature - there is all - how to say -

potential - potential to know everything. So once you see that

potential fully developed, that is enlightened.

IS THIS PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT A DIFFICULT ONE?

Of course difficult. You see mental development - that is not

easy, but is some possible thing. Now you see training - now for

example, is education. Actually . . .

SYNC. (LONG)

(THIS IS MAN ALIVE, DALAI LAMA, INTERVIEW, NOW SOUND ROLL 9,

CAMERA ROLL 14 AND 14B)

SYNC.

SYNC. SYNC.

OKAY? YOUR HOLINESS, WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF PRACTICING

MEDITATION?

Beside - a practitioner. I think it's the people who are making

some business or normal work. It would help. Now, you see,

meditate one's own, how to say, inner feeling, or sometimes is to

meditate on - this is kind of difficult to realize or recognize,

but try to meditate on consciousness itself. On this help to

sharpen your mind, and it also gives you some help to increase

your power of memory.

IT INCREASES YOUR POWER OF MEMORY.

Yes.

AND IT--

It's not ... the religious practice but simply sort of as

exercise of mind.

I HAVE HEARD THAT SOME YOGIS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP INCREDIBLY

INTERESTING ABIITIES - CLAIRVOYANCE, FOR EXAMPLE, TELEPATHY, TO

REMOVE THE BODY FROM CONSCIOUSNESS. AND YET WHEN I MENTION IT,

NOBODY SEEMS TO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. NONE OF THE MONKS WANT

TO TALK ABOUT THAT. WHY IS THAT?

I think . . no doubt it is difficult to practice these things.

But there are - now is my generation in Tibet, the previous in

Tibet, also some people who have some extraordinary experiences.

Now even today - now in India, there are some people who are, you

see, gain some extraordinary experience through their yoga

practice as .... or meditate like that.

SO IT DOES HAPPEN, IT IS HAPPENING.

Yes. And when they - they you see practice, the meditation

practice increase, the power of meditation practice increase,

their health also improving.

IT IMPROVES.

I noticed.

I WAS WONDERING--

Mental stability is something - something special, very good.

I WAS WONDERING IF PERHAPS TALKING ABOUT IT PUTS SOME HINDRANCE

ON TO IT SO - MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT. I DON'T KNOW.

NOBODY SEEMS TO WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. MONKS. BUT HOW ABOUT YOU

- DO YOU HAVE THESE ABILITIES?

No, no.

YOU DON'T.

You see, the main reason is I have no, you see, no time to

practice on these you see meditation, sumati - one ... of mind.

For that, you see, you need complete isolation place, at least

you see some time. So up to now, is impossible, I have no time.

But I wish, you see, sometime I get is it time, enough time, to

practice these things.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE OF THE REFUGEES,

TIBETAN REFUGEES, AND YOUR EXILE, IS THAT IT HAS - YOU'VE HAD TO

ADAPT TO THE WAYS OF THE WESTERN WORLD. DOES THIS CHANGE

BUDDHISM THEN? HAVE WE NOW A DIFFERENT KIND OF BUDDHISM?

No, I don't think. Now, as any other religion, Buddhism deal

with basic human problem, and that is death - old age, birth,

illness. Now these are the basic human suffering. So is so long

this is basic suffering is the same, and so long these things are

there, the value of Dalai Lama also will remain.

WILL REMAIN.

You see, now these basic suffering - as far as basic suffering is

concerned, you see, a thousand years back and today, you see, not

much differences.

BUT SOME THINGS HAVE CHANGED, AND THE OUTWARD APPEARANCES HAVE

CERTAINLY CHANGED. THE DRESS HAS CHANGED IN THE YOUNG PEOPLE,

THEY'RE DOING DIFFERENT THINGS.

Now you see certain things definitely they have changed. Now for

example, you see Buddhism, which flourished in Tibet, .....

originally come from India. You see Indian Buddhism, but when

you see that teaching is a - reached certain new place, then

some sort of adaptation with the new environment, new culture.

So gradually in certain level, how to say, the local culture, the

local environment, somehow, you see. What to say. Hm. I mean,

is a mix.

MIX.

So you see we call it Tibetan Buddhism. So in the future, I you

see always express the ..... western Buddhism - that kind -

American Buddhism or European Buddhism, that kind of things you

see will happen.

DO YOU SEE CHRISTIANITY--

That now you see - the culture part, culture part - so - there is

a teaching side and a cultural side. These are two things. So

the culture side will change, but the teachings itself remain.

This I believe.

DO YOU SEE CHRISTIANITY AND BUDDHISM GROWING CLOSER TOGETHER,

Oh yes.

AND IF SO, HOW IS THIS - HOW WILL THIS HAPPEN? FOR EXAMPLE--

One thing --

YOU'VE MET WITH THE POPE, FOR EXAMPLE.

I know one thing, you see, due to more contact. That is it gives

you the others - other beliefs and other teachings. You get more

knowledge about the other teaching.

RIGHT.

So naturally it - how to say - it made difference to look with

that. Then once you come to closer relation, then you will find

the special quality in each of these. So something very useful

for - take from other religion, adopt or use in one's own

religiono. Now for example, and there are certain things which

Buddhists can learn from Christian experience, similarly as a

Christian can learn certain things from Buddhist teaching. So

you see that also is one - one reason to become closer. Then

another thing is - I think it's the world circumstance itself.

Now is it telling us it is highly necessary to have greater unity

and contribute for benefit of all mankind from various spiritual

teaching.

HAS THERE NOT BEEN SOME EXCHANGE OF MONKS BETWEEN THE CATHOLIC

CHURCH AND THE BUDDHIST FAITH?

You mean -

WELL, DIDN'T THEY EXCHANGE MONKS?

Yes. Now in the last few years we - as a matter of fact, you

see, some Tibetan monk visited some Catholic monastery. They

remain you see few weeks and living together, you see, eating

together, meditate together. It's a great experience. And

similarly, some Christian monk, they came to a Tibetan monastery

and they remained you see some time, being - how to say -

exchanging experiences. It is very very helpful, very helpful.

YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN TECHNOLOGY, I KNOW. AND YOU

VISITED HIROSHIMA, WHICH IS PERHAPS THE MOST HORRIBLE EXAMPLE OF

WHAT TECHNOLOGY CAN DO. WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS? ARE WE ALWAYS

GOING TO BE ON THE EDGE OF THIS DESTRUCTION, OR CAN WE DO

SOMETHING ABOUT THE NUCLEAR RACE?

Yes. That . . is the nuclear threat. That is something really,

you see, a matter which everybody should - should concern. Now

it is a question of - you see, one nation or two - I mean, this

nation or that nation, you see, ..... is a question of protocol.

Now, I think ........ time when war happen, there is - is a one

party winner, is one party loser. Today if something happen,

then in both cases, I think very very near to ruin, you see, to

both sides. So now this is now a question of survive the entire

humanity. And this is really a serious matter. Now I always

feel, of course, you see, every human on this planet have

responsibility, you see, to avoid or to overcome this danger. No

doubt, I mean - like me, you see, who practice ...... We have

special responsibility, and equally the all - different people,

especially the leaders, the politicians, they're equally, you

see, heavy responsibility. Now that - for that reason now, I

have opinion. Now we today, we are lacking this basic human -

human contact. I mean contact on the level of basic you see

human nature. I mean, you see, the - despite the different

ideology or different system, that basically we all are same

human brother sisters, and whether we like each other or not,

whether we like it or not, each other, we - the situation is we

have to live together. So you see the - how to say - the

constant meeting or contact between various different leader

without involved, you see, these . . .

(START OF CAMERA ROLL 15 AND 15B)

SYNC.

SYNC. SYNC.

Especially . .

OKAY.

Especially as - world leaders. I feel they are lacking human

contact. I mean, you see, I wish, you see, my, my prayer is

without complicated agenda, simply, you see, meet together and

sort of you see introduce oneself as another human

brother/sisters. And let them know each other, and to grow - you

see human feeling. It will help to create mutual trust, you see.

It will help to clear this suspicion, distrust.

SEE THEM GET TOGETHER MORE AND TALK TO EACH OTHER.

Once, you see, that kind of feeling, you see, comes, then I feel

much easier you see to talk these sophisticated and complicated

business. And much much is helpful to get, how to say, the good

agreement. Now this is how I feel.

IT SEEMS ALSO, IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE A LACK IN COMMON SENSE.

COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU NOT TO KEEP BUILDING THESE NUCLEAR PILES

ALL THE TIME BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S GOING TO BLOW UP.

That's right.

LET'S REDUCE THEM.

That's right.

DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.

Now at the moment, they, what to call, the deterrent, you see,

that method. Of course, you see, in some work, but definitely it

is not an alternative. You see alternative while, you see, that

policy there, it is very absolutely necessary, you see, to create

you see another alternative. That only you see - I feel you see,

the genuine brother/sisterhood on the basis of love and kindness.

A clear realization, all human beings, are the same and the same

type, we have to live together, and this is the planet. Now this

I believe. I think . . if we determine, you see, how to keep

this kind of ..... I think things will change.

YOU HAVE ALWAYS SAID YOU WILL GO BACK TO TIBET. HAS THERE BEEN

ANY INDICATION FROM THE CHINESE WHEN THIS MIGHT HAPPEN?

... Chinese inviting. Some time back I thought around '85 might

be appropriate time to make short visit. Now you see at the

moment, the permanent return - I mean not at all now, you see.

You see they - to think at this moment - you see at this moment,

I not think about that. The reason is - now, as you know, I

always express so long Tibetan people, you see, unhappy, you see,

in deep down great dissatisfaction and ..... I mean is there - I

can serve much better from outside. So the general situation is

still ... like that. But I'm talking a short visit. So that -

now you see, next year, if you see, things are how to say

favourable, and I want to make short visit - but at the moment

not certain.

NO. WHAT - WHAT THINGS WOULD HAVE TO BE FAVOURABLE?

The mainly, the Chinese side. I mean they - would say all those

.... things are broadly speaking improving. But within that

period, again now, sometimes - I am talking this way, sometimes

showing that kind of thing. Still, you see, uncertain as ....

YOU'VE BEEN TO WASHINGTON RECENTLY. CAN YOU TELL US ANYTHING

ABOUT THAT? IS THERE ANY NEWS THAT YOU HEARD THERE THAT'D BE

GOOD NEWS FOR YOU OR THE TIBETAN PEOPLE?

No special. I just went there merely as some of my old friends,

some congressmen, some senator, that they invited. I went there.

And they knew you see my old friendship.

NO NEWS.

So this is the main reason.

YOUR PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED ENORMOUSLY, I KNOW. AND IT'S DIFFICULT

FOR US TO KNOW WHAT THE AVERAGE PERSON CAN DO TO HELP TIBETAN

PEOPLE. NOW, FOR THE MOST PART, THE WORLD HAS SORT OF TURNED A

BLIND EYE TO THE SITUATION. I KNOW YOU'VE DONE YOUR VERY BEST

AND TRIED TO GET THE WORD OUT, BUT THEY HAVE REALLY IGNORED THEM

TO A GREAT EXTENT. WHAT CAN THE AVERAGE INDIVIDUDAL DO TO HELP

THE TIBETAN PEOPLE?

I really ..... You see thing are - now the basic thing is well,

now not on, how to say, reason and logic, but mainly the power

and money. You see, that is very very unfortunate. And this is

the situation remain forever . . . Not good. In any case now,

for the time being, the people, they - I think - how to say -

they generally - you see people - how to say - very very little

knowledge about what is happened there in Tibet and what kind of

situation is happening, and about the past history and one basic

question is there is a historical relation with our neighbours,

especially the relation, the very nature of relation between

Tibet and China is something very peculiar. So these I think is

the people, is especially I mean those - how to say - how to say

history and people who are taking interest in different aspect of

culture - now those people - I - how to say - I wish they know

better.

SO IF WE LEARN MORE ABOUT THE SITUATION, LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR

HISTORY, LEARN MORE PERHAPS ABOUT BUDDHISM.

Right.

WOULD YOU LIKE THAT? AND THEN WE'D HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING,

WOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING, MAYBE. KNOWLEDGE IS ALWAYS THE

WAY TO START, ISN'T IT?

Right.

WHEN YOU GO BACK, YOU'RE - WHEN YOU DO GO BACK, YOU'RE GOING TO

FIND THAT IT HAS CHANGED A GREAT DEAL, WON'T YOU?

Right.

WHAT DO YOU THINK SOME OF THOSE CHANGES MIGHT BE?

Now - you know - our liberator, you see, completely destroyed the

old structure. But meantime completely failed to introduce new

meaningful way of life or meaningful society or stature. Now

that is the greatest failure. So is a people, you see, actually

I mean lost the meaning of society, meaning of individual. That

is a great pity, not only in case of Tibet, but in China proper

is the thing - that things happen. Although in China, because

the middle kingdom - the middle kingdom unfortunately never find

middle part. Sometimes it's extreme right, sometimes extreme

left. Recently I saw one small article and it mentioned in

China, even past is not certain

THAT'S TRUE, THAT'S TRUE, ISN'T IT.

That's very unfortunate.

I WOULD SUSPECT THAT ONE THING THAT WILL NOT HAVE CHANGED WILL BE

THE DETERMINATION OF THE PEOPLE AND THE STRENGTH OF THEIR FAITH.

IT SEEMS TO ME--

Yes, that's right. In Tibet ... faith is concerned I think most

are ..... because of the Chinese systematic destruction. That

makes it counterproductive. And nationalism - very strong. I

can say is more than 95% absolute loyal our own culture, our own

race, our own community. So I always believe so long human

determination remain there, things will change.

WHEN YOU GO BACK, WILL YOU LET US COME ALONG WITH YOU TO FILM--

Oh, of course. You see, I - one person who now fully - how to

say - realized the ancient - you see isolation is sort of almost

like self - self ..... self-defeat.

SELF-DEFEAT?

You understand my point clear.

YES.

Tibet has remained isolated completely. Now that is really

wrong. So in the future, - already in the Chinese - even Chineses

now comparatively they are opening a small door. That is good

sign, that is good. So in the future, .... will be a I think -

how to say - a home of everyone.

HOME OF EVERYONE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

And country very beautiful, so if you come - I think you will

enjoy. The country .... beauty I think very marvellous. Now in

Switzerland in some of those European countries, you see, people

usually regard very beautiful, very good scenery. Now in Tibet,

there is a really natural beauty and climate. Of course, it's a

very high altitude.

YES, I KNOW. YOU MUST MISS IT TREMENDOUSLY. YOUR HEART MUST

ACHE FOR TIBET, TO GO BACK.

Yes, sometimes. Not as - just a simple Buddhist monk. As soon

as you become monk, you see literally you isolated or

disconnected with your own family. So that.

SO A BUDDHIST MONK NEVER GETS HOMESICK.

I think is should be like that.

THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.

I am you see person who people - entire human - entire human

being - as just I mentioned earlier. One family, one human

family. I am not - I don't find much differences between east

and west and this country and that country. . Always a . . . is

what they show - deep down - all . . .

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HOLINESS. I APPRECIATE . . .

Thank you.